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SPN 8.02 related speculation - CaffieneKittySpace
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caffienekitty
caffienekitty
SPN 8.02 related speculation
Just a thought, had it after posting the reaction post and it's a bit heavy-spec for some of the spec-phobes that sometimes read my posts, so I thought I'd post it seperately.



...Did anyone else get the impression that the show is implying that Kevin's dad is Samandiriel?

He stopped himself from giving his angel name to Linda, and she wasn't too keen on angels and just said "the last time that angels tried to help my son" which doesn't really rule out that it's not the only time they've tried to help, or that it's not the only contact she's had with angels. Sooo, what if Kevin's half-angel? Show has had Jesse the half-demon anti-Christ who's still surfing in Australia for all we know, why not a half-angel Nephilim?

Could be a red herring, show is very fond of those.


As I said, just a thought. Please, no information regarding episodes past 8.02 in comments please.

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Comments
percysowner From: percysowner Date: October 21st, 2012 06:18 am (UTC) (Link)
Honestly, once I started thinking who Kevin's father could be, I started chanting "Please don't be John Winchester" so much that Samandriel never even crossed my mind. Right now I think Kevin's father could be important or it just could have been a way to hurt Kevin by implying the man he thought was his father wasn't . Demons lie and Please don't be John Winchester.
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 21st, 2012 06:33 am (UTC) (Link)
I honestly didn't even think of John! XD

John only had the archangel host bloodline though, so unless Kevin's mom's in the rock-reader/prophet hosting bloodline, if there even is such a thing, then John's probably off the hook.
ph0enix_flyer From: ph0enix_flyer Date: October 21st, 2012 06:33 am (UTC) (Link)
To me, the bit where she said "the last time angels tried to help my son" seemed only to refer to the little 'Demon, Angel, Leviathan' game that those two bodyguards played and lost at the end of 7.21.
But, now that you mention it, Samandriel's hesitancy to give Linda his actual name is very suspicious.

Personally though? My money's on Chuck being his father. They've always said that they want to bring Rob Benedict back somehow. :P
Plus, being (another) son of God would be a MASSIVE curve ball.

XD :D XD
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 21st, 2012 06:40 am (UTC) (Link)
Chuck's a bit young though, isn't he? Rob Benedict is 42, and Kevin's supposed to be 16 or 17 I think (although Osric Chau is actually 26) so assuming Chuck's the same age as Rob for lack of a better guess, Chuck would have had to get involved with Kevin's mom when he was... 25, so yeah, he's an option.

I still think Chuck wasn't actually God, but just hosting God, which by my theory of prophets being potential hosts of God means Kevin could host God too, but getting Chuck involved would definitely hook Kevin up to any hypothetical Prophet bloodline. *shrug*
ciaranbochna From: ciaranbochna Date: October 21st, 2012 07:18 am (UTC) (Link)
No, you weren't the only one with that thought. Nephilim was my first instinct when Kevin appeared originally.
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 24th, 2012 04:57 am (UTC) (Link)
I was thinking it for Sam for a while a season or three ago (they are supposed to be giant XD) so obviously, the show needs some Nephilim.
irismay42 From: irismay42 Date: October 21st, 2012 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
I wondered about that too, when Crowley said something about, "Wouldn't you like to know who your real dad is...?" I didn't specifically think of that angel, but I'd thought maybe one of the angels did the dirty deed with Mrs Tran!
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 24th, 2012 05:00 am (UTC) (Link)
He's a handy, unknown angel that turned up awfully conveniently there, considering Kevin's former guardians are gone, and then he hid his name when he had no issues saying it to Dean. It's looking kind of suspicious to me...
elliemurasaki From: elliemurasaki Date: October 21st, 2012 06:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
No evidence that angels can produce children. 'Last time' can imply there was more than one previous time but doesn't have to so imply, and when Samandiriel gave his full name to Dean, he got grief for it.

...thing I do not understand: the archangels, Castiel, Uriel, and Samandiriel have canonical angel names. Every other angel we've ever met ever does not. I mean, they're all Bible names--Zachariah, Rachel, Esther (and even if that's actually Hester it's the same name just spelled different), even Anna though she wouldn't count against the pattern because that's the name her human parents gave her. But the angel names mostly don't come from the Bible.
ph0enix_flyer From: ph0enix_flyer Date: October 22nd, 2012 05:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've noticed that!

You'd think that most of the angels that appear on the show would have names ending in the suffix '-iel', like they do in mythology. But they haven't and I'd love to know the writers' reasoning for that.

Carrying on your train of thought: Balthazar's name was actually one of the names of the three Wise Men. I can't remember whether Anna was ever actually referred to as 'Anael' by other angels (which is an actual angel name) or whether that is actually just fanon. Either way.

As for Castiel? His name isn't a real angel name in any religious mythology. 'Cassiel' is a real angel name, but I'm pretty sure the name 'Castiel' was just made up by the writers as it doesn't actually appear anywhere but in the show and it isn't one of the many other names that Cassiel was also called either.
'Cassiel' does sound a little girly to me, though. So maybe Castiel actually is based on that angel, and they just changed his name slightly. After all, Cassiel is one of the seven archangels in the Judeo-Christian religion, so it does sort-of fit what's happened to Castiel in the show so far. Who knows? :P

XD :D XD
elliemurasaki From: elliemurasaki Date: October 22nd, 2012 05:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
-el, not -iel, the -el suffix means 'of God' and the -i- is part of whatever the rest of the name is.

Anna's never been called anything but Anna onscreen. Which is bizarre, especially from 1978!Uriel, if her angel name is Anael. I mean, I am inclined to think it is and the middle name her parents gave her is Elizabeth or Ellen or some such thing because she told them her name while in utero, but she has never been called anything but Anna.

I thought Castiel-the-angel-of-Thursday appeared on lists of angel names predating his appearance on Supernatural on a Thursday?
ph0enix_flyer From: ph0enix_flyer Date: October 22nd, 2012 05:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ah crap, yeah. My bad on that one.

Okie dokie, thanks for confirming that. I never could remember her being called anything but Anna on the show either, but calling her 'Anael' is popular fanon, and one that I find myself not really being all that opposed to.
She got nuked by Michael, regardless. So I suppose it matters little. ;P

Oh? I thought Sachiel was the angel of Thursday?
I heard that the thing about Castiel being the Angel of Thursday was a running joke amongst the cast and crew as a result of the show running on a thursday, not to allude to it. Maybe I heard wrong, I'm not sure?
elliemurasaki From: elliemurasaki Date: October 22nd, 2012 06:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121162819/http://www.angelfire.com/journal/cathbodua/Angels/Cangels.html has Castiel the angel of Thursday and that snapshot is from 2007. QED. Dunno about Sachiel; maybe it's a shared duty?
ph0enix_flyer From: ph0enix_flyer Date: October 22nd, 2012 07:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ha, maybe. Or maybe there are just so many angels and so many different religions and accounts they are featured in, that no-one knows what the heck to do with them all! XP
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 24th, 2012 05:27 am (UTC) (Link)
You guys seem to have hashed out the Castiel question among yourselves, excellent.

According to the Heptameron, a handbook of ritual published in 1496 in Venice by a guy called Peter de Abano, Thursday has three Angels: Sachiel, Castiel, and Asasiel.

The Esoteric Archives is a fascinating resource; it's been making my browser history an occasionally more alarming place since about 2006-ish. The Key of Solomon's in there too, which in the show is the source of the Devil's Trap and other nifty things to draw on stuff, but is an actual historical publication on magic and ritual, written in the 16th century.
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 24th, 2012 05:13 am (UTC) (Link)
Ah, but there wasn't any evidence that demons could use their hosts to produce children either, until Jesse. If an angel in a host body got pregnant, or impregnated someone, or did some angel-handwave thing and caused some parthenogenesis, it could be possible. It's just a theory, anyway, something to ponder until we find out what's up.

Personally, I think the names not all having the -el suffix is probably just the writers trying to add variation. Or, from a theology perspective, it implies that angels can develop from dead humans, like demons do. Zachariah and the rest of the non-els could be former humans who became angels. Again, theory.
elliemurasaki From: elliemurasaki Date: October 24th, 2012 05:15 am (UTC) (Link)
Incubi and succubi have been a thing since forever, though, and they've always been a flavor of demon. I have never heard anything ever about angel babies, or angels sexing humans, being a thing.
caffienekitty From: caffienekitty Date: October 24th, 2012 05:34 am (UTC) (Link)
On the show, or in real world texts the show might base such things on? Nephilim, most commonly interpreted as children of angels and humans are referred to in the Bible (and Torah) in a few places. I will admit though, the extent of my research on that is Wikipedia, so really, I have no idea. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the matter will come by and clarify it later.
elliemurasaki From: elliemurasaki Date: October 24th, 2012 05:36 am (UTC) (Link)
...excuse me I need to go shoot myself for idiocy now, because I really did know that. It just wasn't dots-connecting when I posted that comment.
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